Is this angle shooting

by **the lash** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:06 pm

Playin in DTD £300 over the weekend, when we were down to 2 tables I pushed all in from late pos trying to steal some blinds, the BB welled up for ages he kept saying 'I cant be ahead, I cant be ahead' my all in was 80k he held 140k, blinds 6k/12k 1k ante,then he looked right at me and with his hands on top of his cards he pushed his cards to the centre of the table and said 'please dont show me a bluff' I said 'Im not showing you anything' and went to muck, he then said he had not passed yet pulled his cards back and started to anylise my statement of not showing, now, I think he has passed but the dealer says he had not let go of his cards, i am stuck now because I cant ask for a ruling as it will look weak if he rules his hand is live so I have to sweat it out, after a while he calls, or should I say stacks off with 89 off which was better than my 47d and he took me out.

I did nt mind the call, its the moving the cards to the centre and back again I want opinions on, is this angle shooting, or is it an acceptable tactic to gain info?

by **The-Tower** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:24 pm

Anything goes at DTD and it looks like he was angle shooting.... Did he get any info out of you saying you aint showing, I don't know..Either way its a sick call with 8-9....

Well done for going deep tho..

by **The Cub** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:07 pm

I have to agree....It is unacceptable but as he didnt let go of his cards they are still live. Cheap move if you ask me, may have to try it sometime lol

Well done though bud :lol:

by **checkraise** » Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:13 am

don't think he's angle shooting as such more like trash talking(don't think he sees you throwing your cards away here,but you nearly did tut tut :lol:

)I think the jerks making a attempt to justify a terrible gamble,even if you say nothing he wants to call,even if your comment says pushing light he can't call with that hand,it doesn't say is hands ahead in any way.
he'd got the urge to gamble off is chips when he looked at his connectors the donk :lol:

I don't see anything more sophisticated than that in it,does anyone else?

by Cf » Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:07 pm

Sounds a like a little bit of an angle shoot to me. That said though you need to not show any reaction or throw your cards away until the dealer has taken his and mucked them. Hopefully you won't fall for it again

by **cove** » Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:58 pm

just sounds like a t i t to me.

having said that, Ian Nelson tried a little trick out on me at Bolton that I was suprised with, although it was obvious to everyone at the table exactly what he had, including me. He seemed amazed when he realised we all knew what he was doing - the guy at DTD must have been a better actor than Ian lol.

by **The Rage** » Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:54 pm

As far as the hand goes, i think your opponent made a very good call. He took a gamble, but with good odds.
I think the card sliding is very poor though. Very unsporting, shame really.

by **the lash** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:41 pm

'He took a gamble, but with good odds' ??????

Do you even play poker???

How can that call ever be called a good call with good odds????

Lets remember he was CALLING not betting.

He has 12k in the pot the small blind is 6k 7x1K antes so there is 25k in the middle, I went all in for 80.5k so he had to call 68.5k in to a pot of 105.5k so he is just 2.5/1 under dog, now lets look at what hands he could be up against... under cards un paired, maybe a 10% of the time, over cards un paired prob 60%, under pairs maybe 30% and over pairs 30% so in only about 15% of the time he is in any kind of good shape and that good shape is still only a 60/40, and the main issue you are forgeting is he only had 140k in total so if he is wrong (which he will be prob about 85% of the time) he will be left with only 60k which is 5 x BB.

In any way you look at this it is a bad call, I did not want to get into the issue of whether it was a good or bad call, but seeing as you brought it up.

Would anybody else on the forum of made that call 14 left out of 327 and with next out on £890 and the winner on £27k, I doubt it.

by **checkraise** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:44 pm

agreed lash theres no odds to call i was surprised to see that last comment :roll:

people seem to make there own odds up these days

a pass all day for me

by **The Rage** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:22 am

LOL at these replies. Beleive it or not Lashy, the original purpose of my post was to commiserate with you about the unsporting behaviour of your opponent. That was all. Other people berated your opponents call, and have continued to do so.
At the time of my original reply, i genuinely thought that, all things considered, your opponent made a good call . I still feel that way. Your opponent correctly realised that you would be shoving with ATC. You were short stacked and your opponent wasn't in great shape either, so he took a gamble. The only hands that he was a big underdog against were overpairs. Against the two junk cards that you shoved with he was a decent favourite. He took a gamble and made a good call. To whoever your opponent was-WP.

by **cove** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:54 pm

The Rage wrote:LOL at these replies. Beleive it or not Lashy, the original purpose of my post was to commiserate with you about the unsporting behaviour of your opponent. That was all. Other people berated your opponents call, and have continued to do so.
At the time of my original reply, i genuinely thought that, all things considered, your opponent made a good call . I still feel that way. Your opponent correctly realised that you would be shoving with ATC. You were short stacked and your opponent wasn't in great shape either, so he took a gamble. The only hands that he was a big underdog against were overpairs. Against the two junk cards that you shoved with he was a decent favourite. He took a gamble and made a good call. To whoever your opponent was-WP.

lol that's pure defence mechanism kicking in, the Lash's summing up of his odds etc is correct, it wasn't a good call. You say against the two junk cards he shoved with = the CALLER doesn't know they're junk. My opinion is it wasn't a good call in those circumstances.

by **checkraise** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:39 pm

the position shove with any two cards is good stratergy,there's still lots of fold equity in his stack,it does not matter that the guy can put him on any two cards,you "CAN'T" call that bet with rags?thats the idea behind the concept :roll:

"I can't call that bet so I will anyway"is the play of a loser IMO :lol:

by **The Rage** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:35 pm

Ok. I've just knocked myself out of a tournament, that i was in very good shape in, by making a totally senseless call of a re-raise all-in when there was no need whatsoever to gamble. Mathematically it could be argued that i had the correct odds to call, but, in reality, i threw my tournament life away.
So, you're all right and i'm wrong. The shove by The Lash was obviously the correct move, which i have never doubted. The call by his opponent, although not a crime against poker, was slightly 'iffy'.
Hopefully, if i can recover from the latest phsycological body blow of yet another tournament suicide, i will learn something from the experience. With a bit of luck i might even make it down to Blackpool one of these days and give you all a game. I need a bit more practice yet though.
ATB-Rage