Opinions please

Autobetkev · Ace High Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Posts: 48 Location: Leicester

Ok, playing in 'the best home game in the Midlands', if you haven't heard of it you soon will, try Google.
Level 1, blinds 25/50. 6th hand. 10k starting stack.
5 callers, I wake up with KK in SB and make it 325 to go, 5 callers.
Villain (Rupinder Bedi(George2loose)) comments that I will cb whatever.
(history is that George is very active and likes to punish weakess in this environment. nb, I very rarely believe him and he is aware of this.
Flop - 2d, 5h, 8h.
I cb 1200.
Folds to villain who fires all in. I have him covered by about 1k.
What do you put him on?
What do you do and why?
Reason I ask, is that opinion was divided around the table.

(Although pre flop play seems to be very loose at what we consider to be a very good game, the evening is spent discussing hands and situations, therefore players tend to get involved with playable hands, basically to practice post flop play)

Raassskkkk · Ace High Joined: 22 Mar 2007 Posts: 38 Location: CHORLEY

whats the problem, u throw your hand away,it's too early in your tourney 2 be wondering if he's got trips,two pair or a flush draw,even if u call right and u r in front dya wanna risk him missin the flush at this early stage.Personally i'd have him on trips coz of the statement he wuz callin wotever

JonThomson · Royal Flush Joined: 20 Oct 2005 Posts: 3243 Location: FTP

george2loose · Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:58 pm Post subject:

JonThomson · Royal Flush Joined: 20 Oct 2005 Posts: 3243 Location: FTP

You're right in that a c-bet isn't a huge part of his range as you're looking at it, as c-betting into that many people is bad.

that said, if you put him on an overpair, you don't need to shove to protect a set. he's bet enough to fold out draws, so if you just make it 3k to go, you keep him interested and will have inflated the pot enough that you give him a tough decision if you shove turn. if anyone else wants to play along with some kind of draw, you don't mind as they're not getting the right price (unless they have some massive combo draw like 76hh, and even then it's not that great). shoving folds out far too much of his range that you beat imo.
_________________
Jon Thomson
Pushing trash and rivering donkeys since 1982

"Expected Value is the term bad poker players use whenever they lose a big hand. The term comes from economics, and therefore it only exists in theory."

george2loose · Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:25 pm Post subject:

The point of the shove is to disguise my hand- if I make it 3k to go with a set and shove with a draw I'm transmitting my hand.

If i make it 3k with a draw and Kev call- shoves on the turn I have to fold.

So by shoving I am 1)Giving him a poor price to call against a combo draw 2)Creating fold/fear equity 3)Disguising a set

Blatch · Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:19 pm Post subject:

Easy fold for me. Im not saying KK isnt winning but I dont want to be putting 85% of my stack in with 2 cards to come when I "could" be losing.

AA is very unlikely but with 3 players left to act behind him George probably has some hand if not a monster draw. I would expect George to shove here with a set probably expecting a call anyway.

Being the 5th hand of the comp im guaranteed to get better chances of winnign chips than having to put 85% of my stack in now. Knowing the two players : -

From George's Point of View - Kev could have AhKh here with a semi c-bet, or more than liklely the over pair. We know he has KK and I would expect most hands to be put down to an all in here. George also knows Kev never believes him so a set in definitly in raneg here.

From Kev's Point of View - George doesnt have air and knowing Kev never believes George I would expect George to be stronger than he normally would. George wont want to race so early on here.

This hand more than likely went one of two ways ....

1) Kev called and was against 6h7h (any heart, upn down or rr 2 pair) and George missed the lot

or

2) Kev called against a made set and KK sucked out

less likely

3) George has Ah2h and missed the lot too.

The Chaser · Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:35 pm Post subject:

I agree with Blatch that this is a fold and I think the key is that this is only the 6th hand of a deep stack tournament
_________________
Flair for show nutz for dough...better to be lucky than good

luther101 · Ace High Joined: 02 Sep 2008 Posts: 9 Location: uk

You call like a shot - some of the other 'replies' you've had appear to come from people who are probably scared to go out after dark!

No matter how 'early' it is in a tourny, you should be in it to win it ...... pass, and you've probably missed an excellent chance to double up.

If you spend too long 'overworrying about what your opponent 'might' have, you ain't ever going to win a carrot!

None of the 'pussies' above have speculated as to whether it might have been a bluff, or maybe A 8 etc ....... they are too busy 'wanting' to pass, and too afraid to ever find out!

george2loose · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:30 am Post subject:

Brother Love · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:49 am Post subject:

lol @ george.. Very Happy

_________________

POT ODDS !!!! why do i need them, I've got you beat !!

luther101 · Ace High Joined: 02 Sep 2008 Posts: 9 Location: uk

[quote="george2loose
U obv play a LOT of deep stack tournaments and final regularly.....

NOT![/quote]

Errrrmmmmmmmm, indeed I do - I've played many deep stack tournaments ..... GUKPT main events, and even the Betfair Asian Poker Tournament held in Singapore (and cashed).

And as for yourself?

Go on, 'enthrall' me with your 'near miss' at reaching the final table of an online Party Poker freeroll ...... mug.

WidowMaker · Flush Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 1494 Location: Hull - UK

lol welcome to the forums Smile

_________________
Poker Slag

The Fox · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:32 pm Post subject:

Luther...you really should have an understanding of who you are talking to...not all is as it seems Rolling Eyes

But for your info....his name isn't George Embarassed

_________________

luther101 · Ace High Joined: 02 Sep 2008 Posts: 9 Location: uk

luther101 · Ace High Joined: 02 Sep 2008 Posts: 9 Location: uk

The Fox · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:56 pm Post subject:

No doubt you have and all are entitled to their opinion....my reference was to your obvious comment as follows:-

And as for yourself?

Go on, 'enthrall' me with your 'near miss' at reaching the final table of an online Party Poker freeroll ...... mug.[/quote]

Be very sure G is no "mug"
_________________

luther101 · Ace High Joined: 02 Sep 2008 Posts: 9 Location: uk

george2loose · Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject:

luther101 · Ace High Joined: 02 Sep 2008 Posts: 9 Location: uk

It's the first level of a 10k starting stack. Blinds are 25/50. You must play really well if you're shoving in the next hour of a tourney!

I think that against any random players range, KK is a fold here. You obv have trouble folding and overplay overpairs

Ermmmmmm - sitting at my table in the recent GUKPT main event at Luton, two players got it all in with AA pre-flop (Duvall being one) against opponents with 55, and 88, respectively.

Both the 5s, and the 8s, 'quadded' to crack the bullets on each occasion. and the first break was miles away!

What you appear to fail to comprehend is that good/aggressive players don't give a toss about "how early it is" when they're out to get chips - in fact the earlier the better!

I'm not trying to tell you how to play, if you choose the timid approach so be it, I wish you success ....